一位有關中國問題的英國專家呼籲英國進一步瞭解中國香港特別行政區的歷史。 我們與珍妮·克萊格（Jenny Clegg）談了中國香港特別行政區的國家安全法。她是《中國的全球戰略》一書的作者，自1970年代以來一直關注中國的發展。

專家採訪原文翻譯

主持人：現在，一位中國問題的英國專家呼籲英國進一步瞭解香港的歷史。我們之前曾與珍妮·克萊格（Jenny Clegg）談過中國的「港區國安法」。她是《中國的全球戰略》一書的作者，自1970年代以來一直關注中國的發展。

珍妮·克萊格：英國人民確實需要瞭解歷史。他們談論了很多關於黑人生命的問題，奴隸制的不道德行為。然而，奴隸制發生後，鴉片戰爭立即爆發了。

我認為，需要有人提醒英國人，香港是在一場戰爭，一場不道德的戰爭中被英國殖民勢力佔領的。而這就是強迫中國開放鴉片貿易的、有史以來被公認為最不道德的戰爭之一。並且就英國政府而言，我認為自1997年以來，他們最好考慮自己的角色。是鄧小平提出了「一國兩制」的想法，不是英國政府提出的，而且是英國政府只是自以為法官一邊站著想：「中國是否做到了嗎？中國沒有做到嗎？」

一方面，實際上顯然是某個利益團體在鼓勵反對派製造這種僵局。因此，我認為英國政府應該更深入地研究自己的角色，它實際上在多少程度上推動「一國兩制」體系正常健康地運轉。

因此，我認為一個國家制定自己的國家安全法規是非常正常的。我們在英國有相關立法。而美國更是有非常非常多涉及這種國家安全的立法，在某些情況下，懲罰比在香港通過的「港區國安法」更為嚴厲。

Hostess: Now a british expert on chinese issues has called on the uk to learn more about history of hong kong. We spoke earlier to Jenny Cleck about china's national security law for hong kong. She's the author of the book China's Global Strategy and has followed china's development since the 1970s.

Jenny Clerk: British people really need to understand the history. They talk a lot about black lives matter， the immorality of slavery.

Well， immediately after slavery there was this opium war.

I think that the british people， they need to be reminded hong kong was seized by british colonial power in a war， in an immoral war， one of the most immoral wars that there's been to open china to the opium trade. As far as the british government is concerned， I think that they would do better to think about their own role since 1997.

It was Deng Xiaoping that came up with the idea of one country two systems ， not the british government but the british government has just stood as a judge and looked at

"Is china living up to it? Is china not living up to it?"

And on the side， actually apparently income encouraging the opposition to create this situation of impasse. So i think the british government would do well to look at its

own role how how much has it actually helped to make the one country two systems work.

So i think it's very normal for countries to have national security legislation. We have legislation in the uk. The united states also has lots lots and lots of legislations covering this kind of

thing and in some cases with the punishments even more severe than the security law for that's being passed for Hong Kong.